Born without a silver spoon

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[edit] This Article was created by a thread posted by Frambo on January 30th, 2009

As many of you know, I recently made a successful transition to saltwater fishing on artificial baits.  Of course, some days its nice to have a bit of cut bait for backup when things are slow but that steers me away from my latest topic in expanding the quiver...The Gold Spoon.

Ive got a few different gold spoons in all this tackle people have been generous enough to pass my way. Small, large, treble hooked, weedless, rusty, newish...I've even got one with a rattle and a spinner on it.

This is most likely the most legendary of all redfish lures earning it a status of something like Excalibur.  I tried one a few times when first starting the salt water fun and had no success pulling the sword from the stone.  Anyhow, after getting to a comfortable level with squishy soft artificial baits and even enjoying some marginal success with painted plastic, its time to try a plated chunk of hammered metal with a weedless hook and a wobble in its action. Have any of you mastered this mystic lure?  What size, type, rigging, swivel and so on do you have success with?  Im guessing a treble would not be ideal in the grassy beds and these things are in all sizes from smaller than my pinky all the way up to a monster table spoon size.  Then there is bling.  What is with all the frilly, wavy, tentacled things hanging off of these metal monsters?  They look like something from a truck stop bathroom vending machine.  Do they work or should a simple spoon with a hook suffice?

Any input or shared experiences would be appreciated.

Snook-ones

Spoons can be a really good search bait covering a lot of water quickly.  Steady retrieves over grass tops or with slight pauses to make it drop.  could be ideal to drop one in while paddling to that next spot......as far as the dressings....apply your favorite topical scent product as it will adhere a 'lil bit better.  I would go with the weedless kind of spoons (trebles are just a headache)....anywhere from 1/8th or larger contingent upon your tackle.  I used to fish them quite a bit and have been successful in the past.  I always carry at least one silver and one gold at all times.   ovdoyakr

I have been very successful with both a gold and silver Johnson Sprite, usually with a treble, but a single hook would also work. Majority of fish caught have been spotted trout, but also have caught some undersized reds. Speed of retrieve is important, especially with the colder weather.

HelRazor

If you're going to be sight fishing I would advise that you leave the spoons in the kitchen drawer at home.  I agree that they're a great search bait and can cover a lot of distance quickly.  However, if there's a redfish in the vicinity when that lands in the water you might as well stand out there beating a metal garbage can with a baseball bat.  I also agree to stay away from the treble hook, it will foul on EVERYTHING. On the plus side you can certainly cast them a country mile, but even with Sampo ball-bearing swivels (expensive) you'll get line twist.  Sorry to be a buzzkill but I don't even take my spoons out on the flats anymore.

However...I do carry a silver colored spoon in the summer and watch for the crashing whitebait in the deeper water.  Simply paddle out there, wait for the bait to crash, throw the spoon in the area and reel quickly.  You'll likely come up with a jack and they're a hoot to catch.  Jacks are especially fun to target because they are stuuuupid.  Lure action?  Just toss and reel as quickly as you can.

Iron Mike

I have used them in the past with mixed results.  Trout luv em !!!  I prefer a single hook at at times have tipped it with half of a GULP bait strip ( name escapes this morning)  I have to agree with Kirk, use a swivel.  I have used both a snap swivel and a split ring attached to the spoon and a Sampo swivel.  I prefer the Sampo swivel method.  If you are ever up north fishing in the Great Lakes for Coho salmon you can never have enough spoons in your tackle box.

Mike Wong

The weedless gold spoon (Johnson Silver minnow and it's many clones) has probably accounted for more redfish than all other artificial lures combined. I can concur with all the other statements as to it's benefits mentioned above, ie, great search bait, casts a country mile, etc. That's the good news.

The bad news, the redfish that we chase in the ML, IRL and BRL have seen every single brand of spoon made in the last 40 years and could probably read the brand and label from a mile away. Especially in gold. Kirk also makes a very important point about the particularly spooky nature of the fish in our area, the typical 1/4 to 1/2 spoon makes a pretty loud splash when it hits the water unless you learn to "feather" the landing. (Think of it as chipping a golf ball and putting it softly on the green with just a bit of back spin:)

Having said that, I still carry an assortment of spoons with me out of habit although I very rarely break them out. I like the original Johnson Silver Minnows in gold and silver, I also like the "Gator" brand spoons because they are cheap and come in black, which is a surprisingly effective color for a spoon. The other thing I like about the Gator spoons is that they adjust the weight by making the spoon thinner or thicker but keep the same profile, which is neat. Also they have a slot cut in them to make adding trailers very easy. Sometimes I'll add a worm or even a Gulp jerk bait as a trailer and it swims very enticingly. The puffers love that setup:) I also like the Nemires spoons for certain situations, not so much for swimming but for bouncing off the bottom along the contour of a drop off or something. They have a built in rattle which can be good and bad. I think the rattles are too loud for spooky winter fish in the super shallows.

But when it comes down to it, spoons continue to be effective redfish baits and the whether you will catch fish on them or not is more a matter of how much confidence you have in them.

Edlive96

Thanks for the post Frambo... I had the same questions, and the responses were great! I bought a smaller Johnson gold spoon... smallest one they had to try it on the flats to see if they work... will let you know.

I have had zero luck on soft plastics except gulp... I dunno, I suck with a jig.

Mike Wong

The smaller Johnson spoons can be good in certain situations but I find that they generally will tend to "plane" to the surface too much unless you work it real slow.

Re: soft plastics, it's really all about confidence. You won't catch any fish on a soft plastic unless you use it, if you don't catch any fish you will tend not to use it, if you never use it you will never have any confidence, if you have no confidence you won't use it, if you don't use it, you won't catch any fish.... did you follow all that?

Personally, I find a whole lot more satisfaction fooling a fish into biting a piece of plastic or a fluff of bucktail or hackle than soaking a shrimp or even a Gulp. Gulps tend to fish more like natural bait and I generally only break them out if I'm targeting black drum....but I'm determined to crack that nut as well.

Here's what I would recommend to build some confidence in fishing with plastics. Get a pack of Mustad Powerlock Weedless hooks in 4/0 size with the 1/16th oz weight.

Then get a pack of one of the following:

DOA CAL 4" jerk baits in "Glow" or in one of the darker colors. (Pick any, doesn't matter) Or get a pack of Exude RT Slugs in Avocado red flake (also called Mangrove Red) Or get a pack of Zoom Super Flukes

in Baby Bass. With any of the 3 above baits, next time you go fishing, rig one of these up weedless. If you are blind casting, try a "medium slow" retrieve in a "twitch, twitch, pause, twitch, twitch, twitch, pause" pattern. It doesn't take a lot of rod tip movement to impart action to the bait. And slower is better. The pause allows the bait to "fall" and this is often when the strike will happen. If you are casting at tailing or cruising fish, throw it out at least 5-6 feet in front of the direction they are swimming or facing, actually these days 10 feet is better. Let them move towards it and just give it a small twitch and let it rest a few seconds, then give it another small twitch. Keep in mind that if you see a tail up, then they can't see your bait because their nose is buried. When the tail goes down thats when they are more horizontal and can see your twitch. So time your twitch for then the tail goes down. If you try the above consistently I guarantee you will catch fish.

HelRazor

I second the power lock hook by Mustad in that exact same size and weight.  If you're going to try a spoon, definitely get the 3/4 oz size so that you can really fling it.  Be sure to cinch down your knots very carefully and tightly because I've sent countless lures including many spoons sailing after my knot fatigues. 

Sir Speros

Don't forget Arkansas Shiner looks great in the water like live bait!

Bigguy

I throw a little tiny Dupree gold spoon fly with my 6wt, 7wt or 8wt flyrod and it makes very little noise when it hits the water.  Quiet for those spooky reds. I also use spoon flys by Caves Wobbler, Rainys and my favorite Walden. I also use the Johnson 1/4 oz spoon with a sampo. At times very productive when the water is not calm and there is bait fish there are moving which helps with the spoon entry.  One secret if you are concerned about noise, is to give it a cast, let it sink to the bottom and let it remain until all the entry circles have subsided and slowly retrieve the spoon much like swimming plastic worm.  A fast retrieve is the culprit of line twist. Just my opinion,

Torque

I agree with Bigguy, 1/4 oz silver or gold spoon with ball bearing swivel is a great all around bail. I have had trips to Everglades City where I went through ever spoon in my box. Its amazing to cast to the edge of a oyster bar and have the spoon blasted before you can close the bail.

Sir Speros

Very good point...fishing south Florida, boy do I miss it! out in homestead, there's an area call aeroje, the best fresh/brackish water fishing I could remember anything from live bugs to 12 inch worms and we always used 17 Lb mono despite what others said there was to much cover and branches to under size the line.....how about those American crocs down deep by everglade city too!!!!! Edlive96

Quote from: "Michael Wong on January 31, 2009, 11:57:33 PM Re: soft plastics, it's really all about confidence. You won't catch any fish on a soft plastic unless you use it, if you don't catch any fish you will tend not to use it, if you never use it you will never have any confidence, if you have no confidence you won't use it, if you don't use it, you won't catch any fish...."

Did you follow all that? If you try the above consistently I guarantee you will catch fish.

Mike, Thank you for taking the time to write that response. I take all the advice everyone gives me to heart and next time I go out, I'm leaving every other lure at home and sticking with some jig heads and just a handful of soft plastics... Only way I can commit since you are right - stick with it. I make the common mistake and can't help but change lures every 30 min if no action.

Doubt sets in... is it the right color? Too much weight? Am I in the wrong area - should I move deeper or work it slower, faster, aaargh! I've even contemplated booking a charter to see how the pros do it, because after all the magazines, forums, countless hours on the water - still no redfish on my lip gripper. Not to hijack Frambo's thread, I'll stop here, but I think your post is great newbie instruction... this kind of detailed advice is invaluable! It's what I'll be thinking about on the long ride to the launch next time.

Kirk gave me similar instruction last time we went out together and I should follow everyone's advice... I'll definitely put some pictures of the first fish I catch on a jerk bait! Thanks to everyone.

Edlive 96

One last question... for twitching, I typically retrieve "side-arm" style... that is jerking the rod sideways to keep the lure down near the bottom... I'll mix up an "upward" jerking motion to the "side-arm" with other lures including my top water plugs... does this matter at all?

Helrazor

All that's important is that you get the quick erratic twitch of the soft plastic.  Have you noticed how smaller bait fish twitch and roll when they're first hooked?  That's the injured action you're trying to imitate.  You also noticed when we were fishing that I kept the rod tip in line with the lure and that's true of all lures that I use.  You want to use the rod to set the hook rather than "reeling down" or any other technique and you'll find that when you feel a strike just in the effort of raising your rod to start reeling will set the hook. If you recall my entire tackle box is in my left pocket:  A few Mustad powerlock hooks and about 8 soft plastics in a zip lock bag.  I really don't care that much about color. Back to the spoon question.  If you're going to use those even with a Sampo swivel I strongly urge that at the end of the day you cut the spoon off the line and drag considerable line behind the kayak on your way back to get all the possible line twist out. 

Mike Wong

Kirk is the consummate minimalist and I envy his great confidence in just carrying a few baits and a couple of hooks in true "Tom Sawyer" fashion:) Me, personally, I tend to over analyze everything and bring something for every contingency! I have to routinely "thin out" my tackle bag especially for my boat. So you are definitely not alone when it comes to obsessing over colors, patterns, positions etc. Not that this is all bad.

Thinking things through while you observe and especially when you catch fish helps you recognize patterns to help you catch fish in the future. I've been slowly on the path to simplifying my tackle bag in that I can bring a common set of baits for the various fishing situations I have, 1) fishing by yak, 2) fishing in a friends boat,  3) fishing in my boat. This way I won't keep finding myself reaching for something that's in my other bag.

Currently this consists of 2 waterproof tackle trays. One for hard baits which include a few topwater plugs (Skitterwalk, Spook Jr), a few suspending plugs (Mirrodine 17MR, Mirrominnow, Sebile Stick Shad and a couple of spoons.) The other for soft plastics like DOA Shrimp, DOA Crabs, DOA Baitbusters. Then I also carry a small softsided case to carry bags of soft plastic bodies in. I usually bring an assortment of DOA, Zoom, and Exude bodies in different sizes and colors although I tend to fish DOA CAL baits more than anything else. In this bag I keep a mini tray with hooks, jigheads and a sharpener. So while this may seem like a lot of tackle, it all fits very neatly in my milkcrate and I'm in good shape for just about any situation that I encounter inshore.

Also, sometimes I'll key on a certain bait pattern but bring different colors. Like yesterday Ernie and I fished the NMZ and I was fishing DOA Shrimp and DOA Crabs. I probably changed colors 5 or 6 times before I settled on the one that got me the two good bites I had. I guess my point is, you have to find your own balance. As long as you have the basics down don't obsess too much over whether you used the right loop knot to tie your hook or whether you used the right brand of hook or whatever. Unless of course the "obsession" is part of the fun (as the case is with me).

As far as the motion, the answer is "YES".

There are many ways to work a jerkbait and none of them are really wrong. They will all catch fish under the right conditions. If I'm standing in a boat, I'll do what we pier rats used to call the "Florida Whip" which is a downward stroke with the rod tip near the water. Depending on how hard you twitch the rod it can present the bait as if its frenetically trying to escape danger or a subtle "flushed from cover" look.

In a yak I'll do a side arm motion when fishing jerkbaits in a swimming style. If you get the cadence right with the "twitch-reel-twitch-reel-twitch" you can also "walk the dog" under the water. This is basically a zig zagging action of the bait.

Other times if I'm casting at stationary tailing fish, I'll "bounce" or "hop" the bait past the fishes nose. This is is more of a traditional rod tip up at a 45 degree angle kind of thing. Pick the slack out of your line until you feel the bait, then give it a short hop, repeat. Re: hiring a guide, that's never a bad idea if your budget can handle it. There's some excellent guides in our area that are also great teachers. However, you don't NEED to do that to learn how to fish artificials. Fishing with folks from the club can give you all that information as well.

Lastly, having the right presentation is only half the battle. You still need to find fish! Or what it really amounts to is learning to recognize patterns where fish would usually congregate. Just remember EDGES,EDGES,EDGES! Edge of a drop off, edge of a shoal, edge of a weed-line any kind of a break in the pattern of the surrounding area will tend to congregate fish.

Don't get discouraged if you aren't catching fish. I got skunked yesterday despite doing all the right things! The fish are sometimes ultra spooky or not hungry or other times just not there. Don't assume that you are necessarily doing anything wrong if you're not catching.

The real deep dark secret of what separates the folks that consistently catch fish from those that don't is.........persistence.

Water Time

Some great info in this thread. As far as gold spoons go redfish love them but as Helrazor pointed out not the best choice in ultra shallow spooky fish situations. Mike makes some great points in his writing. You can go as simple or as complicated as you want. The most important thing is to have confidence in what you're throwing. I have been using a soft plastic jig and tail called a love's lure for about 30 years and have caught about every inshore gamefish you can think of on it. I like the sparkly tail 1/4 ounce the best. I fish them slow with an up and down sweep of the rod, twitch em a little faster or even under a small float in real shallow water. I like to try new lures and techniques but when I get despirate to hook something I usually go to the loves lure.

Prowlin-4-reds

Ed, as far as your retrieve goes..... are you using braided line? if this is the case remember that braid has zero stretch. What this equates to is that if you are keeping a taught line, staying in contact with the lure, every movement of the rod tip will telegraph to the lure. I'll keep the rod tip lower in deeper water and keep it high in shallower water. the speed you retrieve at is also a factor. Especially if you are working an area with heavy foliage or none at all.

Frambo, this will also hold true with your spoons. There are a lot of factors that come into play when you are fishing any specific lure. The absolute biggest factor though is what Mike  W. said and it is of the utmost importance. You HAVE TO HAVE CONFIDENCE in what you are throwing. I have a ton of confidence in a 17mr ( as if I had to tell anyone that ), I have caught some really nice fish with it. Honestly tho, I could probably do the same with any lure, if I had as much confidence in it.

Sir Speros

I'm no pro but I can say for my self side twitching works in any manner....example when using a top water a side twitch then reel your slack and repeat lets you walk the dog using the zero spook lure....also great for tiny torpedoes sometimes twitching upward makes a top water lure fly in the air at your face! my dad learned that the hard way in the everglades at 12 pm rushing to the E.R. lucky for him the 3 sets of treble hooks/Rapala went in his arm.... suspending crank baits can be twitched side ways to imitate a scared fish while on retrieve then if it sinks to a depth twitch upward to help pull up up......and with rattle traps etc......worms you name it.... Cracker 1

I was Born With A Gold Spoon..........The Johnson Sprite was the first Lure I used when I was introduced to Saltwater Fishing,and it has landed about 80% of the Red`s that i`ve caught ,but it took a lot of time and constant use to get good enough to use it in Tight and Skinny Quarter`s,and even Sight Fish with them.

I use a 1500 Symetre, 10lb Mono, No Leader, smallest snap swivel you can get away with, 1/2oz Sprite.

As someone mentioned, feathering your cast is very important.........., you have to close your bail by hand and start reeling just as the spoon hits the water, that will reduce the splash of the spoon, and keep the spoon off the bottom, because one spec of grass and the game is over,they will not hit a dirty spoon,so having that spoon moving as soon as it hits is a MUST in shallow water.

Now you got it out there and started,after that you need to keep it between the grass on the bottom, and the Floating Grass.   I keep a fast retrieve......reel, twitch, reel, twitch.....that will give it action, then your rod tip placement will adjust the depth it will run in......high tip will let it ride high, lowering your tip will let it drop down a bit.

You should be able to see the flash of the spoon, if you can`t see the flash, chances are the fish won`t either. Like everything else,the more you use it,the better you`ll get with it,and you`ll find more places to use it.

Edlive

I've been using a 1/4 oz Johnson gold spoon the last several times I've fished and have landed over a half-dozen reds with it... I've fished it with a loop knot without a swivel but had super line twist so I did what Hellrazor mentioned and let the line drag out and it fixed the problem in no time, but only twisted up after probably dozens of casts with it, maybe hundreds. I've been trying to use a swivel occasionally but haven't field tested enough to see if it makes a difference (both to fish and line twist).

I've been sight fishing with it when the wind is up, not in shallow calm conditions (I prefer a jerk bait I can finesse now, thanks to Mike and Kirk's advice)... here are some of my observations:

1. Low light conditions (sunrise/sunset/overcast) or choppy waters, or murky waters call for spoon time... I feel like I have a better chance of catching reds vs small trout/puffers on a jerk bait with the spoon... Have not caught a puffer on the spoon yet! Plus the jerk baits will sometimes gut hook a small hungry trout... I use my arc de-hooker but some fish are hard to take off, I feel so bad when that happens.

2. Difficult conditions... I can spot fish in the distance on a windy day and every other lure has a hard time getting to them upwind... so thus, I have found a way to cast the spoon hard and fast keeping it low so it doesn't catch wind and plonk in the water... try it next time you are out on a windy day, let the line drop past the leader and cast into the wind and release the line when your hands are about at your face like the bass fisherman do with bait casters... the lure will "fly" into the wind directly and splash not much more than any other lure. Plus, you know you get blown back FAST on a windy day and trying to keep up with that fish in your sights is not easy... cast retrieve then keep paddling to get another shot. If it does catch wind or a bad cast, yank it back and quickly retrieve for another shot.

3. Great search lure... at the end of the day and the wind is pushing me back to base, I throw it downwind while drifting and have caught reds and trout with just a simple med-fast retrieve, no twitching... the lure will be just 3-6" below the surface and it still works. When there is a lot of floating grass in the water, the Johnson weedless is the lure that gets the least amount of grass besides a weedless jerk bait. I've seen trout follow it all the way to the boat, throw it out again and hook up. Super easy lure to use and I think gold works better than silver since it is a reaction strike and the gold I think just "looks different" than a simple silver flash which could be anything including water reflections.

4. Simple to use... as I said earlier, I use a med-fast retrieve where it does a little more than wobble... it does twist up the line a little. I've tried different retrieves and found it to work the best. When you are tired of working jerk baits or mirrolures and your wrists hurt by mid-afternoon tie one on and try it... least effort of all my lures. Easy for newbies to learn too and catch fish on artificials... confidence right?!

I am very confident in this lure now... At the 2009 Beacon 42 outing, none of our gang were able to hook up on a redfish and they were few fish on the flats and as Fred and Halo were chasing trout just outside the launch, I very tiredly threw my gold spoon out towards the bank and instantly hooked up on about a 25" redfish... Crazy! Nothing ever responds to my lures there. Water was very murky and lots of bait around.

So now, my arsenal consists of a weedless jerk bait (Zoom fluke, watermelon red or green/black flake color), 1/4 oz Johnson Gold Spoon, Mirrolure 17MR (wal-mart has cheaper unpainted version for like $5), and Skitterwalk bone color or Yozuri Crystal minnow for trolling. I will try and have caught fish on bait busters, D.O.A shrimp, and others but the ones I mentioned are the ones "pre-tied" at the house.